INTERVIEW WITH CARDINAL ALFONSO LÓPEZ TRUJILLO

President of the Pontifical Council for theFamily

granted to KRO TV/Radio (Holland)

Offices of the Pontifical Council for theFamily

October 20, 2003, 11:30 a.m.

 

 

1.    KRO: IN THE BBCPROGRAM, YOU SAID THAT CONDOMS DO NOT PROTECT AGAINST HIV AND AIDS.  WHY DID YOU SAY THIS?

 

            Isaid this in a one-hour program of questions and answers.  Only one of the questions referred tothis theme, which is much broader… Because especially some rich countriesdo not have an objective view about what is happening in the world of the poor,a world literally bombarded by the condom campaign.  Thousands, millions of condoms are exported to Sub-SaharanAfrica.  The poor nations inparticular are assailed in this way by a “co-campaign” that may notonly be against AIDS, but may also serve a broader purpose regarding birthcontrol.

            Thisis not the first time that the Vatican has spoken out about this.  We have done so several times, even the“Minister”, so to speak, of Health, Cardinal Barragan, andothers.  For the great differenceis one of mentality.  In fact, wesee that the only way to contain this pandemic is precisely fidelity inmarriage, respect for women, what we call chastity, which is not impossible.

            Whatis happening in Africa?  TheCardinal of Nairobi has spoken recently. He said, “Here they have invaded our nation with condoms.  Not only has this not decreased thepandemic, but it has increased it enormously”.  This is because young people above all think that they have completeprotection and so they seek all kinds of relations and the risk becomesgreater.  Not only for the problemof AIDS, but also for other sexually transmitted diseases it is very well knownthat the condom is of no use.

            Thistheme is not new. In my reading material I have a Dutch review (No. 41,1990…) where we read: “Practice shows that there is a great needfor a means that will prevent both AIDS as well as pregnancy” (“aswell as pregnancy” seems a little strange).  “Unfortunately, people have still not realized thatthis means cannot be the condom”. The theme is an old one.  Ifind literature by Dr. Helen Singer, of Cornell University, who is the directorof the Human Sexuality Program of the Medical Center.  She states this: “To have a permissive view withregard to condoms is to court death”.

            Inour Pontifical Council we have a “Lexicon” of 900 pages in whichone article deals with this theme. A physician, Dr. Jacques Suaudeau, wrote it, and it contains an abundantbibliography…but at least it seemed to us that there was a call toattention when we read in The Guardian that the World Health Organization states, “Consistent and correctcondom use reduces the risk of HIV infection by 90%”.  Therefore, there is that 10% where dueto different causes, a risk remains. If 10 persons out of 100 can contract an illness like this, which ismortal, what should the attitude of the Health Ministries be?  And so, this is simply what Isaid.  A warning should be put onthese products, such as, “This is not safe”, or “This is notcompletely safe”.  This is aresponsibility, especially towards the poor countries.

            Basically,however, the problem is one of a healthy anthropology, a conception of man andwoman.  Unfortunately, somecountries have an erroneous anthropological vision, which Catholics will haveto confront and show public opinion that it is erroneous, and how, on the otherhand, the values of fidelity, respect for women and others count as thefundamental principle.

 

2.    KRO: BUT YOU ARETHE PRESIDENT OF THE PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR THE FAMILY.  WHY DID YOU SAY CONDOMS LEAD TO IMMORALBEHAVIOR?

 

            Theproblem is one of “moral behavior”.  The problem is one of an overall attitude towards life andmorality.  If you find, as we oftendo in the mass media, the idea that everything is allowed, that everything isgood, that it is necessary to experience everything, what kind of confidencewill there be later for marriage if young people have lost all values?  Who can promise you that you will havea faithful wife?  Or a faithfulmother?  And a worthy one?  You cannot!

            Manyuse these contraceptives, these condoms. Perhaps this is a society that is erring, that is becomingdehumanized.  And sometimes it isbecoming dehumanized with the help of Parliaments because they make laws thatdo not help families or human dignity.

            Wedo not believe that this is a new thing. The teaching of God’s commandments has a permanent value.

 

3.    KRO: ONE OF THENEXT ISSUES CONCERNS A BISHOP FROM KENYA. HE SAID THAT BISHOPS IN AFRICA SHOULD DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES WHAT THEYTHINK OF CONDOMS.  WHAT IS YOURREACTION?

 

            Iam not familiar with that statement. In any event, it is necessary to be well aware of what the bishops ofAfrica, Latin America and Asia are saying.  They are saying and stressing that it is only throughfidelity, not the invading promiscuity, that the problem has to be solved.  And the problem of the condom is not anoptional aspect from a moral viewpoint.

 

4.    KRO: HE ALSO SAIDTHAT IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF A CARDINAL TO SPEAK ABOUT CONDOMS.

 

            Iwill not speak about statements that I have not read or am not familiarwith.  But if it is not theChurch’s task to defend marriage, youth, illnesses that are spread…The experience we have shows that wherever the way of the condom has beentried, the pandemic has grown. This means many things, many things.

            Itis good in these cases to have basic information about the sensitivities of thedifferent cultures and also about the dignity of peoples who do not wish to besubjected like victims to a kind of contraceptive colonialism, for which thecondom is in first place.  Butabove all I would say it is very sad that at times campaigns are carried out togive away condoms to children in schools. In so doing, sex is trivialized; moral destruction and bad consequencesare brought about because spirits are sterilized.

            Everythingis a game, a trivialization. Dignity does not count; God’s law does not count.  This is a danger, especially in somecountries, where everything is allowed today.  This is a mentality, which you, Catholics, can surely stopwith the Gospel in hand, and good information.  We follow scientific and technical information.  And so if there is a need to fill inthe gaps in order to be informed, we can inform you very well, especially theVatican “Minister”, so to speak, of Health, Cardinal Barragan, whohas spoken about this many times.

            InCanada, the Fifth World Congress on AIDS was held.  Several persons there expressed the doubts that we have haduntil now.  But if you add to whatI said the problem of the heat in those countries, the problem of humidity, theproblem of so many risks that make condoms less safe instruments, then youunderstand that we have a responsibility. We have to speak out!

 

5.    KRO: BUT IF A MANAND A WOMAN ARE MARRIED, AND THEY DO LIVE MONOGAMOUSLY, AND ONE OF THEM HASAIDS, WHY IN SUCH A CASE DOES THE CHURCH FORBID THE USE OF CONDOMS?  ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO DIE!

 

            Thisis one debated aspect.  In the“Lexicon”, the use of the condom in these cases is spoken about,and it is seen how the risk is many times greater.  So it would be better first to consult the medicalliterature and then know that it is not normally (I say “normally”,but I would like to say “always”, because it is God’s will) possibleto act in such a way that there is no openness to life in a given case.  But to run the risk of an illness byusing these means is not morally sound or safe either.  But here I rely on the study that isbeing done on this case in which it is shown that the percentage,unfortunately, is very high.

            Thesediscussions must also be taken up in dialogue to see where scientific researchhas come, and what the doubts are (doubts do exist).  No one can take the liberty of saying, “The others arenot right at all”.  No.  They are persons who turn to research,have consultations, laboratories and very important centers inuniversities…

The fight against the Vatican is a well knownthing, but very many people thank the Vatican…because the Church defendsmarriage, the family, fidelity, and (I would say this above all to parents),your sons and daughters so that they will not become objects and be subjectedto all kinds of lack of respect. We see that everything is spreading more in these countries, despite thefact that they have strong Christian roots.  It would be better -- and I hope this is done, especially bythe bishops -- to go forward in this struggle for the sake of the family andfaithful love.

 

6.    KRO: ONE LASTQUESTION: A PROFESSOR IN HOLLAND SAID YESTERDAY, “IT’S CRUEL WHATTHE CARDINAL IS SAYING.  THIS IS ACASE FOR THE INTERNATIONAL COURT IN THE HAGUE”.  WHAT’S YOUR REACTION?

 

No comment.

 

7.    KRO: WHY NOCOMMENT?

 

            Nocomment because you would have to judge hundreds and hundreds of persons.  And because precisely those who defendfreedom of speech are subjected to not being able to speak.

 

8.    KRO: WHEN WILLTHE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH CHANGE, IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ANTICONCEPTION ANDCONTRACEPTION?

 

            Contraceptionis a problem in marriage that does not follow the rules of complete self-giving(that is what marriage does). Still today, Humanae Vitae is entirely in force.  PaulVI’s Humanae Vitaespeaks about faithful, exclusive, lasting, usque ad mortem, and fruitful love.

            Theseprinciples are not for 10 or 50 years; they are permanent principles.  And so there ought to be great respectbecause the Church has experience. You see, until 15 years ago, we were attacked so much because of ourcriticism of Marxism.  Today no onespeaks about this theme any more. It is known that the Church, the Pope and all real Catholics havegreatly benefited humanity by saying, “A limited, poor humanism would bea defeat”.  Today we aresaying the same thing for the problems of contraception, the problems of a verynarrow bioethical vision.  Wait andyou will see how truth will prevail in the scientific field too.

 

9.    KRO: BUT WHENWILL IT BE POSSIBLE FOR CATHOLIC MEN AND WOMEN TO DECIDE THEMSELVES, IFTHEY…

 

            This,with regard to God’s law, is not a problem of conscience.  It is in close connection withGod’s law.  But oftenregarding contraception and the interpretation of Humanae Vitae freedom of conscience is spoken about, whichis poorly interpreted.  It must bebefore the law, and there is no doubt about this.  If someone goes against the law, a good conscience must say,“This is wrong”, and every bishop has to teach this.

 

10. KRO: ONE VERYLAST QUESTION.  WHAT DO YOU THINKOF THE FACT THAT AT THIS MOMENT IN AFRICA MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AREDYING OF AIDS?

 

            Thisis a great poverty, a great problem. It is a great problem especially when there is no family cohesion.  It is a great problem of Islam whereone can have several wives.  It isalso a problem of poor people who have no work, no hygiene, and noculture…

 

11. KRO: EXCUSE ME,THEY ARE DYING AND THE CHURCH ISN’T DOING ANYTHING.

 

            Wedo so much!  Perhaps the Church isthe one that does more, even for the theme of AIDS.  We have hospitals everywhere, homes for the sick,research…and this is done everywhere!  Here in Italy some very important research is being done atMondo X.  We are close to thissuffering.  We are especially closeto the children who are subjected to this pandemic and the young people who areits victims.

 

12. KRO: IF YOUPERMIT ME, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE DYING.

 

            Yes,precisely.  And precisely becausewe have this experience we also know that many sick people say, “If theyhad informed us in time to avoid promiscuity, to be faithful, to have a senseof dignity…”: this is a lament expressed by many of those whom theChurch serves with great love.